Tuesday, January 17, 2012

She's Not Into Me? Impossible!

Have you all seen 500 Days of Summer?
If not, go run and do it...now.

Why is it that when a guy tells a girl "We're just friends," the girl must accept that and move on, lest she be deemed too emotional or clingy, but when a girl says that to a man, the man actually hears, "We're just friends unless..."?  I mean, of course we are just kidding, right?  Of course we'll come around, right?

Men, we are not kidding.  We are not waiting for some sign.  I know there are exceptions to this rule, but for the most part, when we say, in a serious heart-to-heart, that we are "just friends," we mean exactly what we said.  If we continue to want to spend time with you?  That is because you are a friend.

A persistent girl is looked at as psycho and men run like she's some diseased plague.  But a persistent man is constantly encouraged to keep going after the girl, no matter what she says, and if she rejects him, well that's just her problem.  What the? 

I want to grab them both and say, "Honey, he/she is just not that into you.  Move on.  Either be friends or don't.  But move on."  I actually have said this a few times fortunately/unfortunately.

How do you feel about this?  Do you think pushy girls are punished whilst pushy men are encouraged?  Do you believe girls when they say they want to be just friends?  


S.R. Braddy said...

Okay, FIRST of all, in 500 Days of Summer, the fact that Summer repeatedly TOLD Tom that she wasn't interested in a relationship, and then repeatedly treated him like they WERE shows that she wasn't being straightforward and honest with him but was, in fact, leading him on. It's a terrible way to treat a friend.

Second, Tom lets himself get misused by someone who is honestly telling him that she isn't romantically interested in him. His perseverance in pursuing Summer is a weakness, not a strength. His clinginess gets him into all the trouble he suffers in the movie. (By the way, I DO see some real-world parallels in this instance).

Third (and this is pure hypothesizing here), I think people tend to say things like "I'm not really looking for a relationship right now" as a self-defense. When someone says that, they may actually WANT a relationship, but they don't want to seem needy or lonely. Loneliness is weakness, and we all hate seeming weak.

That said, there's a difference between "I'm not interested in a relationship" (which is non-specific enough to be interpreted as a cry for help) and "I'm not interested in a relationship with YOU" (which you'd have to be an idiot to ignore).

500 Days of Summer is awesome. Seconded.

Larissa said...

I should have guessed I'd be misunderstood.
I am not saying the actions are acceptable, 500 Days of Summer isn't even that great of an example, but it is the best one I can think of.
The point is NOT about the movie, which all of your comment is arguing my fallacy because I mentioned the movie.
The point IS that most men hear, "We are just friends, but keep trying and maybe I"ll change my mind!" when a woman says, "We are just friends" and MEANS "we are just friends." And the world is mostly okay with that. Then, if a woman does the same thing (pursues a man after he says they are just friends), she's mostly viewed as crazy.
And now here is where you submit an argument for the fickleness of woman and if they weren't fickle they would have earned that reputation. *sigh*

miss kristen said...

Although I agree with Stephen regarding the movie I think the point you're trying to make boils down to the double standard between women and men.

If men are single into their 40's they're playboys and bachelors. If women are single into their 40's they're Old Maids and lost causes.

If a man sleeps around he's a player. If a woman sleeps around she's a slut.

If a man persues a woman who is honestly not interested he's persistent. If a woman does that she's psycho.

Larissa said...

Kristen = YES!!!

S.R. Braddy said...

I didn't mean to argue with you. I just wanted to talk some more about 500 Days of Summer - just watched it last week :-)

In fact, I think I wanted to talk about the movie SO much that I forgot the point I originally intended to make, which is this: Guys who are interested in romancing a girl find it difficult/impossible to separate their feelings from their friendship. Basically, if a girl WANTS to spend time with a guy, even if she tells him it's just "as friends," all he hears is "I want you" and interprets that as encouragement.

Some guys get over that eventually (I've had to on a couple of occasions), but, in some cases, it's nearly impossible for a guy to be friends with a girl he had the hots for once upon a time.

Also, I'd never argue that women are fickle... frankly because it's never been my experience. Y'all are all right in my book.

Larissa said...

Stephen Comment # 2 = YES!!!! ;-)

S.R. Braddy said...

Oh, and the double standard thing? If a guy sleeps with a lot of women, he's a stud TO OTHER GUYS. If a guy pursues a woman he's persistent TO OTHER GUYS. Women tend to find him sleazy.

I'm not saying there's NOT a double-standard, because there certainly is. It seems to be perpetuated by a masculine-dominated worldview, which is slightly inaccurate.

Miss Megan said...

It doesn't help that every third High Councilman to speak in my ward says that when he met his wife she wasn't interested, but he persisted and she relented. The moral of the story is always "BE PERSISTANT" and I see all the women around me cringe. It's disrespectful to lead a man on, yes, and it's also disrespectful for the man, once the girl has made herself clear, to ignore her feelings and keep trying.

My favorite example is Mr. Collins from Pride and Prejudice. Lizzy says NO, and he assumes she must just be flirting so he continues to try. Worse, Lizzy's mom is all for the relationship and tries to push her into it. So obnoxious.

Jon said...

It all comes down to the roles each gender is expected to play in dating. Men are supposed to do the pursuing, while women are supposed to be pursued. For hundreds of years, women have been taught to play hard to get, and men have been taught to play along, making it a romantic chase. Later it was called flirting. But as our definition of flirting has changed, we now call it games. Not many people claim to like all the games associated with dating, but they still play them.
And since men are still inherently expected to do the pursuing, it comes off as an unnaturally weird role-reversal when the woman is the persistent one.